Soccer Mom: Unplugged

raves, rants, reviews and recounts of life in middle America

2006/9/18

More on the Pope riots

@ 05:43 AM (26 months, 28 days ago)

Sky News is reporting on the Pope Jihad.  Apparently, Italy has had to step up national security in response to threats from Islamic groups against the pontiff.  Demonstrations around the world saw the Pope burned in effigy and in Somalia an Italian nun was attacked and killed, an act that sources say was most likely linked to Pope Benedict's speech. 

It is always savage to return violence for verbal insult.  It is evil and inhumane.  Furthermore, with an estimated 10-15 percent of Muslims determined to enforce Islam at the point of a sword ,  it is also irresponsible of the Muslim Brotherhood to demand, then accept, then reject an apology from the Vatican.  The MB is a puppetmaster, pulling emotional strings and using violent adherents as a weapon to silence critics. 

The stated objective of the Muslim Brotherhood:

The Muslim Brotherhood or The Muslim Brothers (Arabic: الإخوان المسلمون al-ikhwān al-muslimūn, full title "The Society of the Muslim Brothers", often simply الإخوان al-ikhwān, "the Brotherhood") is the name of a world-wide Islamist movement, which has spawned several religious and political organizations in the Middle East dedicated to the credo: "God is our objective, the Quran is our Constitution, the Prophet is our leader, struggle is our way, and death for the sake of God is the highest of our aspirations." As stated on its charter and its website, the Muslim Brotherhood seeks to install a just Islamic empire and a worldwide Caliphate, through stages designed to Islamize targeted nations by whatever means available.

 

 

 

Comment(s) »

  1. Not meaning to engage in polemics, Cate, but how does this post represent any understanding of our discussion yesterday?

    I'm still wondering how you would respond to comment #6 in your "Pope to Muslim Fanatics: Why bother?" post w/o my input.

    Comment by albert— 2006/09/18 @ 07:44 AM — (Reply)

  2. That's an ad hominem attack, sir. You are suggesting I would be supportive of Jim's napalm solution? Get real. I condemn such actions but you'd know that if you knew me. Instead you continue to dehumanize and generalize. Pot to kettle...

    Furthermore, all you've done is engage in polemics and I don't have time to engage your need to save me today. Fact is, I clarified that this was a percentage of Muslims (as presented in film Obsession) and Muslim Brotherhood info is from Wikipedia.

    Comment by Cate— 2006/09/18 @ 08:19 AM — (Reply)

  3. I wasn't suggesting, I was giving you leeway to prove or disprove my point. That wasn't an ad-hominem attack.

    And again, I'm not attempting to "save" you, as you put it. This is a combination of theological discussion based on generalized meaning from your individual posts.

    Moreover, have "dehumanize" and "generalize" become your favorite reactionary catch-words? By implicating that you didn't understand parts of yesterday's discussion and asking a follow-up question for further proof/disproof, that is a far cry from dehumanization.

    Even in the generalized sense it seems you failed to achieve anything in your last post of the night yesterday.

    You and I both want Muslims to be seen in a better light. Only I want the fanatics to stop doing everything in their power to reinforce negative stereotypes...


    You're expecting your negativity to have a positive impact on the passive muslim world? I don't think so. Moreover if this is the case you fail to explicitly state this, and fail to make it a clear implication, in your posts.

    Comment by albert— 2006/09/18 @ 08:34 AM — (Reply)

  4. I wasn't suggesting, I was giving you leeway to prove or disprove my point. That wasn't an ad-hominem attack.


    But the point probably didn't come across due to the fact that the discussion is based on the internet.

    Comment by albert— 2006/09/18 @ 08:41 AM — (Reply)

  5. London Times has another article about some lunatic calling for the Pope's assassination -



    The Pope must die, says Muslim

    A notorious Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London yesterday that the Pope should face execution.

    Anjem Choudary said those who insulted Islam would be "subject to capital punishment".

    Should the Pope have apologised for his remarks? Vote here

    His remarks came during a protest outside Westminster Cathedral on a day that worldwide anger among Muslim hardliners towards Pope Benedict XVI appeared to deepen.

    The pontiff yesterday apologised for causing offence during a lecture last week. Quoting a medieval emperor, his words were taken to mean that he called the prophet Mohammed "evil and inhuman".

    He insisted he was "deeply sorry" but his humbling words did not go far enough to silence all his critics or quell the violence and anger he has triggered.

    A nun was shot dead in Somalia by Islamic gunmen and churches came under attack in Palestine.

    Choudary's appeal for the death of Pope Benedict was the second time he has been linked with apparent incitement to murder within a year.

    The 39-year-old lawyer organised

    demonstrations against the publication of cartoons of Mohammed in February in Denmark. Protesters carried placards declaring "Behead Those Who Insult Islam".

    Yesterday he said: "The Muslims take their religion very seriously and non-Muslims must appreciate that and that must also understand that there may be serious consequences if you insult Islam and the prophet.

    "Whoever insults the message of Mohammed is going to be subject to capital punishment."

    He added: "I am here have a peaceful demonstration. But there may be people in Italy or other parts of the world who would carry that out.

    "I think that warning needs to be understood by all people who want to insult Islam and want to insult the prophet of Islam."

    As well as placards attacking the Pope such as "Pope go to Hell", his followers outside the country's principal Roman Catholic church also waved slogans aimed at offending the sentiments of Christians such as "Jesus is the slave of Allah".

    A Scotland Yard spokesman said of his comments: "We have had no complaints about this. There were around 100 people at the demonstration. It passed off peacefully and there were no arrests."

    Larger Islamic groups in Britain said they accepted the Pope's apology. Inayat Bunglawala of the Muslim Council of Britain said: "The Vatican has moved quickly to deal with the hurt and we accept that.

    "It was something that should never have happened - words of that nature were always likely to cause dismay - and we believe some of the Pope's advisers may have been at fault over his speech."

    Yesterday's sermon by the Pope was the first time a pontiff has publicly said sorry.

    He said he regretted Muslim reaction to his speech and stressed that the quotation did not reflect his personal opinion. Anger and violence - including attacks on seven churches in the West Bank and Gaza - have characterised one of the biggest international crises involving the Vatican in decades.

    The Pope appeared determined to move quickly to try to defuse the anger but the fury of many radicals was unabated last night and there were fears for his safety.

    Iraqi jihadists issued a video of a scimitar slicing a cross in two, intercut with images of Benedict and the burning Twin Towers.

    The website run in the name of the Mujahedeen Army, used by extremist groups who have claimed responsibility for attacks in Iraq, was addressed to "You dog of Rome" and threatened to "shake your thrones and break your crosses in your home".

    In a reference to suicide bombing, it said: "We swear to God to send you people who adore death as much as you adore life."

    The threat of violence against Catholics and Christians was emphasised by the murder of an Italian nun in Somalia. Sister Leonella, 66, was shot as she walked from the children's hospital where she worked to her house in Mogadishu, a city recently taken over by an Islamic government.

    A Vatican spokesman said he feared her death was "the fruit of violence and irrationality arising from the current situation".

    Father Frederico Lombardi said he hoped it was an isolated event. "We are worried about this wave of hatred and hope it doesn't have any grave consequences for the Church around the world," he said.

    The murder suggested that extremists are determined to use the Pope's embarrassment as an excuse for violence.

    In Turkey, state minister Mehmet Aydin said the Pope seemed to be saying he was sorry for the outrage but not necessarily for his remarks.

    "You either have to say this, 'I'm sorry' in a proper way or not say it at all," he told reporters in Istanbul.

    There were fierce denunciations of the pontiff from Iran. The English-language Tehran Times called his lecture in Bavaria last week "code words for a new crusade".

    The powerful cleric Ahmad Khatami told theological students in the holy city of Qom: The "Pope should fall on his knees in front of a senior Muslim cleric and try to understand Islam."

    But the Turkish government signalled it was content and that the Pope's visit to the country in November can go ahead.

    In his sermon yesterday at the Papal summer residence of Castel Gandolfo outside Rome, Benedict spoke amid strengthened security.

    He said: "I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims.

    "These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought. I hope this serves to appease hearts and to clarify the true meaning of my address."

    No other Pope is thought to have made such an apology.


    Comment by Cate— 2006/09/18 @ 10:27 AM — (Reply)

  6. My own two cents, for what it's worth...

    The Pope didn't really apologize. He expressed no remorse or regret over his actions, his choice of words, or even claim any culpability. All he said was that he was sorry for the reaction, and then pointed out that the words weren't even his, but rather from a 14th century text.

    That's kinda like saying, "Jeez- I'm sorry you're so touchy about your mother. I wasn't saying she's a crack ho, I was just repeating what Billy said about her last month."

    Now, y'all can argue about whether or not the Pope should have to apologize or not, whether he should be held accountable for quoting text that is over 500 years old. You can question whether certain elements are merely looking for reasons to be outraged, and ought to be a little more tolerant themselves.

    The way I see it, it didn't take long for Benedict to demonstrate that he truly is no John Paul II.


    Comment by Michael— 2006/09/18 @ 10:42 AM — (Reply)

  7. I agree that what I've seen isn't an apology. But here's a question: Would any apology really do?

    Comment by Cate— 2006/09/18 @ 11:52 AM — (Reply)

  8. Michael, Cate:

    So what's the moral imperative here? As assumed responsible Christians, what are we to do?

    Comment by albert— 2006/09/18 @ 11:56 AM — (Reply)

  9. Hi Cate,

    Would any apology do? Honestly, yes, but I think it would take an act of humility on the part of the Holy See almost beyond this former Catholic's comprehension. I mean, it took nearly 500 years for them to admit that they made a mistake with Galileo...

    I suspect that JPII might have had the selflessness that such an act of contrition would require, but I also doubt that JPII would have put himself in this situation.

    Still, if Benedict humbly prostrated himself before the mass of Islam, and asked for forgiveness- then yes, I do believe that the present fires would be snuffed out.

    Did the Pope do something that requires forgiveness? Should he apologize? Would such an act put the Western world in an awkward stance towards the Muslim? Boy, I'm not the person to answer those questions. My gut tells me that the answer to all three of those questions is "Yes," but I'll leave it to others to decide.

    Comment by Michael— 2006/09/18 @ 02:28 PM — (Reply)

  10. Galileo - that's funny Michael, I'd forgotten that.

    Personally, I think that even if he prostrated himself in a Meccan Mosque, he would never be absolved by the people we are discussing here. I would guess that most peace loving Muslims have enough sense to ignore his words in the first place.

    An Iranian leader is trying to link the Pope's words to the US government of all things. It always comes down to being the fault of the great Satan, America.

    Some people will look for excuses to be angry and our PC environment has created a world of thin-skinned people.

    People running around demanding apologies and trying to extort acceptance by bludgeoning people to death with perceived offenses... It's so out of hand. If giving offense is a sin then being quick to take offense is one,too.

    Comment by Cate— 2006/09/18 @ 02:48 PM — (Reply)

  11. Agitating radical Muslims is part of Islamic eschatology. When the Islam rises up to conquer the world the 12th Imam is supposed to arrive. Hence the constant calls from Imams Ahmadenijad etc to whip up the masses.

    Comment by elmers brother— 2006/09/18 @ 08:30 PM — (Reply)

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