Propaganda Central aka Lies-R-Us
I'm feeling kinda Wyatt Earp after reading some of the rotting rubbish that's been published on the blogs tonight. Time to do a round up of mud-slinging rogues so that gentle readers can be reminded of why we must fight the good fight.
The usual suspects:
Lover of Angels is on a roll tonight, first celebrating the drowning of four US Marines with literary sound effects in his post Gurgle: God drowns 4 US Marines in tank and then joining in the ill-informed and idiotic crusade against the Bush administration's phone number data mining program. Well now, we all know why he doesn't want his phone number tagged...
And then there's bloghi's very own progressive mind. She's railing against General Hayden for not being clairvoyant on September 10th, 2001 when Al-Quaeda communications that were intercepted sat untranslated for two days. It is my understanding that this particular lady blogger works at the INS, you'd think she'd have a pretty good understanding about bureaucratic ineptitude and red tape... after all there are between 12 and 20 million illegals in the country...
Repeat Offenders:
The Irish Trojan's Blog also addresses the USA Today article about NSA data mining. (Frankly, who didn't consider blogging on that today?) And while the post itself is relatively balanced, the comments - wow! You'd think people were unaware that google maintains records on EVERY SINGLE SEARCH you've ever performed on their engine. Maybe they don't know that pornographers and other unscrupulous marketers scan emails for keywords in order to fill your electronic mailbox with spam that you might respond to...
Then there's the post over at "Real News and Politics" (it's hard to even type that without wincing) that accuses GWB of starving Palestinians. Maybe it's just confused little ole me but if they desperately need American dollars for food in the first place, they were starving before we ever got involved... (I love conspiracy sites - you can just put your mind to sleep and let you imagination take over)
And finally over at The Democratic Daily Pamela Leavey rants about military chaplains being able to "petition the Lord with prayer at military ceremonies". Leavey, obviously having no experience with the military (and surely never having put her life on the line for a bunch of sniveling liberal ingrates), shows her ignorance about the military chaplain's corp. The military employs chaplains of every faith thus showing full compliance with the separation idea. Preferential treatment is not offered to any religion over another nor to religion above the needs or the military. To force chaplains to abandon their individual faith would be much more of a violation of rights (and of the purpose they serve in uniform) than to allow them to pray publicly to whatever God they worship. You wouldn't go to a mosque and demand a pork chop, why the hell would you expect a Catholic to ignore his faith simply because you stopped by the parade grounds? Secular hypocrisy appears to know no bounds...
Interestingly, Leavey's post brings us full-circle because Lover of Angels has added another post tonight about how Christianity is not persecuted in America but the persecutor.... Yeah, after reading Pamela's post I can see that (rolling my eyes).
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Comment by Susan— 2006/05/12 @ 11:14 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Elmers Brother— 2006/05/12 @ 11:23 PM — (Reply)
Cate,
Pamela found your comment and left a link at the Dem Daily.
For a real 'rant', check out my response.
For the record.
My father served in WWII. And in the Peace Corps - at 65, in Kenya
His brother served in WWII. And went on to the design team for the Poseiden, Polaris and Trident missiles. Used to go all over the world meet the subs in port for trouble shooting .
(not your average rocket scientist :).
My father in law was a POW in Germany for 18 mo after he was shot down on a bombing mission.
He returned to be transitioned to the new Air Force and was a wing commander for NORAD as it was developed. He retired as a Lt Col
His oldest son served in the Air Force for 2 tours. Then moved back to Anchorage and became a civilian in the repair crew for all the fighter jets in AK. He rose to the manager of the electronic repair section (computers, etc) for over a decade. He died, literally, on the job from his second heart attack at 57.
I am an RN. Over 30 years I have taken care of vets from every war since WWI - no Iraq vets yet. They have been some of the most wonderful and tragic patients I have been grateful to care for.
It has become more and more difficult for vets of any war to watch this tragedy unfold.
I'm not sure what it is in Pamela's post that convinces you people are out to persecute Christians.
The clarification I would make to the idea about who is being persecuted and who is persecuting:
I work with and dearly love many Christians. The one's who talk openly about the evil non-believers going to hell are who invite human nature to respond in kind. I liken it to an experience I had in Home Care one day. I pulled to a stop just as the light turned red. And the noise started coming toward me. A kid with the speaker volume on max and the balance at full on bass. I was seriously contemplating running the red light just before it finally turned green: my eardrums had hit 9 on a pain scale of 10.
I have supported my patient's religious beliefs and needs for 30 years. All I, and most of the rest of us, ask: is that SOME Christians turn the volume down on their public comments - and keep the equalizer a lot lighter on the bass.
We can all get along if we make the effort to see the good in others, and appeal to it instead of instilling fear or hatred.
Peace
Comment by Ginny in CO— 2006/05/13 @ 12:44 AM — (Reply)
I understand where you are coming from and I really didn't mean to attack Pamela although rereading my post it is harsh.
It bothers me that our men and women have put their lives on the line so that pornographers and their ilk can publish but these same men and women aren't allowed to speak freely. How does that qualify as fair treatment under the law?
Unless they are calling for people's deaths, using inciteful speech or encouraging people to act illicitely - we have no right to censor.
I listened to public prayers every Friday night at my high school football games. The same preachers who invoked God on Friday were showing propagandistic films and passing out literature against my church at their Sunday evening services. I understand the frustration but if I am to retain my speech - I have to respect the speech of others.
Comment by Cate— 2006/05/13 @ 06:46 AM — (Reply)
Please thank your family members for their service. My family and I owe them.
I am a Christian and I understand how you feel. From my perspective it's the secular world that seems loud to us. We are told that we should turn it down or turn it off and to protect our children that's what we do. Or that we can't raise our children with our set of values in the public school system, so we homeschool and still pay taxes to a public school system that we don't use. I too dislike annoying people of any sort who try to push whatever it is. I think that most people would rather SEE how God has changed your life rather than be hit over the head with it. This is one of the problems I see with the Church as a whole.
The other side of the coin and Cate alluded to it is that any other religion or lack thereof is tolerated and embraced, be it Wicca or whatever and rightly so. But Christianity is not tolerated. It's not because we are too loud it's because it's politically correct. Most Americans religious or not have forgotten that our country was founded on Judeo/Christian values. Like it or not these values spawned our Democracy.
I appreciate your viewpoint and your work with veterans.
Comment by Elmers Brother— 2006/05/13 @ 01:38 AM — (Reply)
Cate,
On reading your bio and the post, I had a great empathy for a mother of four kids who is trying to work this kind of effort to make our country into a better place for all into a life that is already packed. A few harsh, too quickly written posts are inevitable. We can all hone our skills to speak more to the issue than the assumptions and anger based on past experience.
At some point, I think it was when the ACLU was defending the guy who publishes Hustler, one WWII vet made the comment that he didn't fight that war so that he would be told what he could or couldn't read. He wasn't defending porn or whatever issue had triggered the comment, it was the "I disagree with what you say, but I defend to the death your right to say it".
I think there is a differentiation in being able to speak out in protest publicly and giving a prayer at a public gathering, be it military or otherwise.
The one is likely going to involve some anger. The other is a time to assert the positives that we can all admire without alluding or mentioning anything that suggests some present are sinners and will got to hell. I have no problem with listening to prayers of other faiths that are uplifting and inclusive.
A bitter example that occurred here was when Billy Graham's son gave the invocation at the public service after Columbine. It was criticized by heads of many local religious groups and many people present who were hurt by it.
My daughter came by today and I was telling her about how this discussion had evolved and how neat it has been. She told me more about the older woman from her ceramics class she had become friends with. Most of her family were liberal but one of the brothers became very evangelical. When one of the nephews died in an accident at age 3, he approached his brother who had lost a child, at the funeral, and told him his son had gone to hell because he didn't receive last rights.
Is it true? I have no reason to doubt it. I have heard way too many things like it with my own ears. Is this the kind of free speech we should be upholding? Society has always used public disapproval to hold the destructive members in check.
What those of us who do not support these kinds of hateful statements need to do is establish contacts like these and work to speak louder than the ones who seem to get too much time at the mike.
I have no problem with a lot of the things that are public displays of Christianity. It is a huge part of our history - but there is a lot that goes further back, to Greece and Rome (bc). Others who make the public displays an issue waste our time and energy. I try to speak out on that.
I really think Jim Wallis is doing a wonderful job at Sojourners to get both political parties to do a better job. And I emphatically agree with the idea that living your creed is more important than speaking it.
EB,
To assert that "Christianity is not tolerated." in this country seems as good an example of any of the kinds of perceptual differences we all have.
The "War on Christmas" has been going on for some time in my perspective: by the commercialization of it to the point the basic message is lost. In fact, the only nationally recognized religious holiday is Christmas. And I dont want, nor do I think that could be changed.
As far as the secularism in the public schools, my kids had as much trouble with Christian influences. There were morning prayers every day at the flag pole. After school Bible study groups and prayers at pep rally's and games. The special speakers brought in were almost always openly discussing their Christian beliefs. That would be fine if there had been some other faiths represented as well, especially in a town that has such a huge Jewish population - that has been here for over a century.
Home schooling is a choice. People who do not have children pay taxes for public education, Quakers (and others) see a really significant portion of every tax dollar going to a millitary they would like to see much smaller. My husband and I spent close to 15K on outside tutoring and technology for our dyslexic daughter. Someday maybe we can figure out something that is more fair to all of us but I think that is really dependent on everyone getting better informed on how our government works and the process of electing candidates.
Going back to the Dem Daily to respond to eb's comments there. I hope you will check it out - I think it all fits together but I flat out warn folks;
I have 2 degrees in BS :) You are not surprised?
Comment by Ginny in CO— 2006/05/13 @ 01:20 PM — (Reply)
Ginny again I appreciate the respectful way in which we can have this conversation but Billy Graham's son is not a military chaplain.
In regards to the way some believers act I tried to explain this on Dem Daily. Christians will ALWAYS fail you. We have recognized our continuing failures and our need for help in dealing with them. I am sorry again that you have felt hurt by what Christians have said to you. Jesus however will not fail you, will not leave you discouraged etc.
I too believe that Christmas is too commercial. In fact I am quite the Scrooge around Christmas time for this very reason. I also spend a lot of time with my children explaining the true meaning and the true meaning is what is often not tolerated e.g. Los Angeles city seal being changed, or the ACLU removing the cross in San Diego...
Public school gatherings with prayer and Bible study are also voluntary and have to be student led. So if the students want it shouldn't it be allowed? If there are Jewish students or pick one I don't care and they want to have a prayer time I don't have an objection to that.
It's nice to discuss these things in a way that can be meaningful.
I know that we will not agree on this issue and that clarity and understanding is better than agreement.
Comment by elmers brother— 2006/05/13 @ 01:56 PM — (Reply)
One of the reasons I support a voucher type system is so that parents can have a choice. I am not asking for more than what I put in as far as taxes go. I don't want public funds, I want MY money back so that I can educate my children. I can do it cheaper and my kids get a better education. (e.g. my sixth grade son is doing college math, both he and his sister who is in 9th grade have taken the college placement exam and can start out as college freshmans... 100 and above level courses) this next semester.
All that to say that I support tolerance of others beliefs, if my beliefs are also respected and tolerated. Unfortunately Christians feel as a whole that in the name of being political correct the tolerance does not extend toward us.
Comment by Elmers Brother— 2006/05/13 @ 02:44 PM — (Reply)
personally I have no interest in directing anyone to read that trash....let both of those dopes be trees falling in an empty forest...and let the two einsteins figure out if there is a sound.
Comment by A Conservative Realist— 2006/05/13 @ 04:50 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Dayna— 2006/05/13 @ 06:14 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brooke— 2006/05/13 @ 08:51 PM — (Reply)
Comment by A Conservative Realist— 2006/05/13 @ 08:59 PM — (Reply)